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[#50039]
Written by: frog1234 [07/08/2007, 18:30] |
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you hit the nail on the head. (american foreign policy is just awful) it's the hypocrisy, and the arrogance and ignorance (and fake patriotism, real patriotism would be actually caring that bush not bin laden is behind 911) along with still a good % voting for bush in the last 2 elections which makes the us people overall disliked as well. (and for putting up with all that crap) but for those of you that aren't ignorant and arrogant our commiserations do go out to you. of course us tv is (despite the cancel happy networks) the best, though the it crowd and jekyll show england are making at least a little high quality stuff and the best comedy i've seen in a while is 'flight of the cochords' which though made in the us is kiwi talent! (ok i'm biased) |
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[#50054]
Written by: spetz [07/08/2007, 21:44] |
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eh, my bad my spelling isn't the greatest. thats what the edit buttons for :d i often make stupid mistakes like that but good point. |
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[#50069]
Written by: frog1234 [07/08/2007, 23:14] |
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what i do know is that the us public aren't the greatest at giving donations. (a telethon held in nz would raise more than in the us which has close to x100 the population) what i know is that the us doesn't pay it's debits to the un. what i know is the us has to help rebuild countries after invading them. (and the amount spent on attacking countries far exceeds any help given) it's not that the us doesn't have good sides, it's that the bad sides along with the hypocrisy are outweighing any good. and you know i haven't even got close to the bad things. still with the exception of arabs/muslims we (people of the world outside of the us) don't hate the people of america, but we just don't respect a good percentage of you due to arrogance, ignorance and hypocrisy which is being amplified as detestable qualities by your current 'government'. (and voting for bush, can't forget that one) imo the great problem with the us is that right after 911 bush's approval ratings were 90%, imo this means 90% of americans are crap. it really is totally the result of the current administration though, not only has it been utterly evil and stupid but has amplified those qualities that needed no amplification. (before bush i really liked the us) while looking for the approval rating figures i found this digg (with 2,666 diggs!) bush doesn't need approval from anyone. he does as he pleases. it's not like anybody will do anything about it and he knows that. he'll also take a 3rd term. who's going to stop him? congress? democrats? the us is executing its own eventual destruction. are its people smart enough to stop it? i hope so. i like the us. it's painful to sit back and watch what it's turning into. that comment had been dug, digged? 129 times. one scum sucking example is that bush can decide that torture by crushing testicles of children is fine if it can coerce parents into talking. (no doubt under the guise of terrorism) oh, and have you seen this? (check it out, you wouldn't believe it if i said it) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=edwy5dczd8a 
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[#50094]
Written by: poppadouche [08/08/2007, 00:37] |
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a shitload of replies here have basically answered my original question. looks like we (americans) are all just classified as politicians on the internet! hey, where the hell is my gov't salary? |
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[#50120]
Written by: Shimonu [08/08/2007, 02:48] |
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a lot of people adopt the opinion that the us is bad instead of taking a chance and saying they're good. because it is so much easier to talk trash. and negative rumors spread themselves faster and further than good rumors do. also because the us is such a large country, if we look statistically, there will be a lot more of the weird/bad types than in a smaller country. of course this goes for talented/good types as well but again the negative spreads better than the positive does. but the us definitely isn't perfect which of course nobody has said but how certain things work could use a change. |
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[#50121]
Written by: frog1234 [08/08/2007, 02:51] |
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well at least you're optimistic. oh and by default unless i know someones views to the contrary i assume they are in the sane 10%, or at lease semi sane 30-40% but less so with you tvfan. there is by chance a parallel discussion going on at another list, i'll paste one choice reply here: hello group, first for discloser purpose, i am indian citizen living in india and don't want to migrate to anywhere in life. now on the debate going over here, about being proud of being citizen of one's motherland. why you can't understand that anybody will be and must be proud citizen of his own motherland. as i am proud to be indian, any us citizen will be proud to be american or uk citizen will be proud to be british.......... but when it comes to be proud of our motherland not for our achievements and developments culture and civilization, but for being lender and police of the world it is wrong. somebody here was telling about how he is proud to be american just because of us lends money to poor nations. of course it lends and helps in poor and developing countries development, and those who are receiving this help are also very much aware of that, one who just feel proud of his nation must remember that how us controlled it's currency as the world currency and so how other nations need us currencies even to trade with some other countries than us. this is all made on the military power of us, we have very recent example that when saddam husein wanted the opec to price the crude oil in euro, he was declared as villon and was eliminated, same thing going on about iran now. i think us don't have any (literally any) right to talk about terrorism because they only gave birth and they only helped growth of this monster and now its out of their control and troubling them only. us might have faced one 9/11 and might have lost maximum 10,000 citizens in history because of their own monster's betrayal, but india suffered most because of this terrorism in world. in last 20 years, india lost its more than a million citizens and property nearing usd 2 trillion because of this terrorism. the original birth of this all shit terrorism was in pakistan and afghanistan. in the 80's when ussr entered afghanistan, us secret service agency cia pumped money like anything to supply the training, funds and ammunitions to train the local peoples about terrorism under the banner of patriotic freedom fighting.but when ussr left out afghanistan then cia did not care about taking the ammunition back. then the whole lot of "jehadi's" were turned towards india and now india is wasting (yes wasting) 150 billion dollar annually just on defense budget because of that otherwise, in last 20 years we would have developed up to the level of korea or taiwan. i think all american knows this truth but they don't have face to accept it. as being indian, i am very much proud of us too. american technologies, trade practices policies and the example of 'free society" is certainly one of the model for the world and many openly accept it. american federal regulatory agencies decisions (fda, nist, nasa) are accepted as 'god's word' and used as it is in other countries. dear americans you must be proud of these good things, but not the bad things your government is doing. there was lot debate on this issue, and i think its not useful place to explain how much great your country is in this forum because this is not a political community but trading and coding community. just my 1 paisa to this subject. thanks and regards madhusoodan |
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[#50129]
Written by: aussiemadmum [08/08/2007, 03:34] |
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this could be part of the problem. poppadouche has opened a thread inviting people to explain reasons as to why america/americans often get a raw deal (which i don't seem to see. however...). then frog1234 has given his reasoning. immediately he is shot down as an idiot. therefore the assumption is that if you have an opinion that differs from america/ns, you are a moron. it is from these assumptions that american's are given a 'bad name'. whether his reasoning is right or wrong, those are someone's opinions, and everyone is entitled to their own opinion. people come to their own beliefs from hearing propoganda and also from the news they hear/read. unfortunately, as was previously stated, it's usually the 'bad' news that seems to travel further. i, personally, am not a bush fan, but.... i am sure that he has done some good during his terms in office. it's just that the rest of the world generally doesn't hear about that sort of stuff. |
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[#50133]
Written by: aussiemadmum [08/08/2007, 04:00] |
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fair enough. but this is where it's hard to have a discussion like this online (although it's alot safer!!!)  i am assuming ( and yes.... assumption is the mother of all fcuk up's) that he is talking about the belief that 911 occured as a retaliation to things that bush has done in the past to these countries/people. i know 'things' is very vague, but this is not my field of expertise (if i have any at all!!), so i can't elaborate. i am sure that if bush foresaw what some of his actions would cause, his initial 'meddling' would have been reconsidered. (well at least i hope). |
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[#50143]
Written by: toolio [08/08/2007, 05:33] |
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i do not dislike americans. if fact, as a canadian neighbour to the u.s. (although now living abroad) i have travelled through approximately 40 u.s. states and greatly enjoyed the time i have spent in the u.s. but after living in a country for the past six years where an anti-american attitude prevails, i grow increasingly curious about the wrath americans face from much of the world. my conclusion (as well as that of some others in this post): it is the meddling stance of the u.s. political system that incurs this wrath. the u.s. political machine (as opposed to its individual citizens) is constantly interfering in parts of the world where it has no right to interfere. the idea that the u.s. has carte blanche to enter any global argument and try to set it right using standards and morals concocted in the u.s. is what irritates many, including me. apparently politicians are not familiar with the notion of not sticking one's nose where it doesn't belong. as long as the u.s. behaves like it is the centre of the universe, it will attract anger and vitriol from the universe it seeks to control. in turn, those who support this view are likely to suffer the same consequences. |
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[#50149]
Written by: aussiemadmum [08/08/2007, 06:13] |
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it goes further than that, though. if the us were out to set all the wrongs right, then that's one thing. but they don't. they only interfere, it seems, when they will benefit somehow. there are plenty of civil wars throughout the world, however, the us is very selective on when and where to intervene. the attrocities that occur in some of the african countries is horrific. why not 'help' those people? also, they are very hypocritical. even though his example was very extreme, frog1234 is right about torture. if another country would do the same thing, it is classed as torture. but if the us do it, it's ok????? guantanamo bay is the shining example of this. and how do they get away with it? because it's conveniently not on their home soil. it is a simple invasion of human rights full stop. |
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[#50155]
Written by: stingray27 [08/08/2007, 06:47] |
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just a shame about all the cruelty to animals, the advertisements targeted at young children and their vegetarian food containing beef. you don't have to take my word for it this was all decided by various judges in courts. in 1997 a judge ruled that mcdonald's exploited children in its advertising, was anti-trade union and indirectly exploited and caused suffering to animals. for more recent examples check out wikipedia. maybe they should uninvent it. mcdonalds i feel is able to represent capitalism as a whole. by focusing on the cheapest possible cost and largest profit, corners will always be cut, loopholes will always be found in laws and quality of will always go out the window. e.g. the farmer who is able to squeeze more chickens into the same space is able to lower the cost of his chickens. it is the mentality of the customer that needs to change. we need to realise that the cheapest option is not a good thing. p.s. i've banned you. make a fuss and i'll ban your ip as well. |
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[#50176]
Written by: ziel [08/08/2007, 10:50] |
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the american government makes it so easy to "hate" america. you always hear talks about how great their "freedom" is, how great their "democracy" is - and how they have to teach the rest of the world how to adopt these ideas - even by force. the ideas itself are great, no discussion there. but people around the world have different understandings about freedom - personally, i would feel like in a totalitarian state, if my telephone could be tapped without reason. or put in jail indefinitely because of my religious beliefs. and then comes the republican candidate, and votes for nuking mekka as retaliation for coming terrorist attacks. but the major point is, important political actions occur all around the world - and the public should know about these important things... but they choose to inform themselfes about paris hiltons' jailtime and anna nicole smiths' baby. you cannot respect people who see themselfes as the worlds saviour while not knowing anything about the outside world. and of course, the truth comes in shades of grey, because people are human first and citizens second. but you remember the one who yells "u s a" while holding a "support the troops or you're no patriot" sign. not the one who calls for peace. |
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[#50179]
Written by: LordOfFelony [08/08/2007, 11:37] |
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i don't hate america at all, in fact it's my number one holiday destination of choice. i'd be interested to know how canada would be part of any 'americanunion' when it's part of the british commonwealth. good luck with that one! |
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[#50214]
Written by: frog1234 [08/08/2007, 19:15] |
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i hated bush the first moment i knew of his existence, i had no idea why but i had a really bad feeling about the guy before i'd even seen him, (and i was too young when his father was president to have much of an opinion about him). but when 911 happened i was confident he didn't do it (as much as i was sure he was an evil coked up vote rigging idiot drunk), sure he's evil and stupid but there is no way and it took many years until i saw evidence that simply could be explained away, while not an american i found the 911 attacks very disturbing and to think that it was even worse was not something i was open to. but there is evidence, mountains of it but most importantly some stuff that simply has no possible explanation except that it was a ruse, it both paints a consistent and far more plausible picture that the conventional story but unlike the conventional story has no huge flaws. now i don't have even the slightest interest in discussing the specifics of it with anyone here, if you have an even slightly open mind do your own research.(pointers i'd give is to watch 'loose change' and to look at the pod and flash along with videos of the towers falling and witness reports) i would point out that the majority of people (in the us (inc ny) and elsewhere) think the government was involved to at least some level. and the majority also know that terrorism is being exploited (overplayed) to create fear and remove freedom and distract. and that's not entirely just the us though. |
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[#50243]
Written by: frog1234 [09/08/2007, 00:01] |
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which conspiracy theory do you think is ridiculous? the one where the towel heads conspired to attack the us for no good reason when the building was mostly empty, by first standing down norad and, well honestly that one has more holes in it than swiss cheese. or the one where the government decided that since the building had structural defects, was insured, would allow them to wage wars and remove freedom and people would gladly hand over their freedom, they had after all planned such things before. (operation northwood/s) if you rule something out and ignore evidence because of your preconceived notions, how is that not ignorance? ok, so here is one poll: scientific poll: 84% reject official 9/11 story only 16% now believe official fable according to new york times/cbs news poll or: half of new yorkers believe us leaders had foreknowledge of impending 9-11 attacks and |
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